May 12, 2022

E130 - Johnny Depp, Jessica Chastain, Steve Pieters, Robert Morse

We talk about the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, Julianne's memories on set with Johnny Depp on "Mortdecai" with Gwyneth Paltrow, her thoughts on the Alec Baldwin shooting, Rob Huebel's and Paul Scheer's thoughts on the trial,

E130 – We talk about the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, Julianne’s memories on set with Johnny Depp on “Mortdecai” with Gwyneth Paltrow, her thoughts on the Alec Baldwin shooting, Rob Huebel’s and Paul Scheer’s thoughts on the trial, and the wacky psychology involved. What is your own psych diagnosis? Take the test, linked below! Weens updates us on her grad school career updates in social work, specifically in the death and dying and hospice fields, while Jo ranks California colleges as of 20 years ago. Then we discuss an Oscar date with Jessica Chastain as we play part of our documentary interview with Steve Pieters, an AIDS activist, friend, and pastor, who tells us the inside scoop on what “The Eyes of Tammy Faye” Best Actress Academy Award winner is really like. We learn which star helped Steve get ready, who were the stars right next to him at the event, and lessons he learned. Also we remember Robert Morse, Tony and Emmy winner who you might know from “Mad Men” and “How to Succeed In Business Without Trying.” Read a wonderful article about this friend and actor that sums up his prolific career, link below, as we reflect on the good, bad, and crazy of Hollywood!

Thanks for your patience with our mic trouble on this episode!
0:00 Intro & Tape Face
2:02 Johnny Depp, Amber Heard trial
3:08 Weens worked on Mortdecai with Depp and Gwyneth
9:03 Why we love Johnny and toxic, bizarre stars
11:54 Alec Baldwin and what happens on location
18:20 Paul Scheer and Rob Huebel on Depp Heard trial
22:20 Are we victim shaming? Psychology, personality disorders
24:52 Take the Self Monitoring Test and diagnose yourself
26:10 Dream Dinners ad 28:05 Dr. Curry. Being a therapist. Weens grad school & career.
33:32 Weens calls out Mouse on California college ranking
38:32 Steve Pieters & Alison Arngrim
42:21 Jessica Chastain, Oscars & nearby stars
55:00 Robert Morse, Mad Men, How to Succeed
59:25 Conclusion
1:02:18 Marvelous Madames promo

Take the Self Monitoring Test at
Follow Steve Pieters:
Alison Arngrim:
Paul Scheer’s and Rob Huebel’s Friendzone
Ron Fassler on Robert Morse:

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Credits: Mouse and Weens theme song
Mouse and Weens outro song by Julianne Eggold + Dan Mahony
Voice actor: Matt Thompson

Promo: Marvelous Madames Podcast
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Johnny Depp, Jessica Chastain, Steve Pieters, Robert Morse

00:00:03 - 00:05:01

Hello. This is sir David Attenborough. And today I'd like to talk about two creatures, one from the north and the other from the south. They're known together as Mouse and Weens. <<intro music>>

All right, ready go. Coming in hot. We're gonna tape our faces up for the Zoom recording. This is really dumb and not a good lesson to people who just want to look like themselves. But I'm in terrible lighting right now. I'm gonna blame the lighting for all this. Well, you know what? This is what sucks. Hi, everybody. This is Joelle, Mouse. Whoops. Mouse and Weens Mouse. That one. And here's my sister. Taking her.... taping her problem spots. Julianne, what are if you could get plastic surgery somewhere? Where would you get it? Right where I'm taping. I didn't realize. How much of a turtleneck I have. I didn't realize how much of a bulldog I look like. All right there. Do I look better? No. I need more tape for my tape. I stuck it to the wrong spot. I'm using electrical tape because I'm so hot. You're on fire. Fire wire. Wow. What are we talking about today as we tape up our jowls and neck rolls? Oh, this is what you want to talk about.

We have been both stuck watching the most ridiculous trial of the century, but we're all loving it, I think. Are we alone in this? I have been kind of in a weird garden bubble. I work in the school garden so I'm not seeing or talking to a lot of people.

Okay, you look like Tape Face! Remember that guy that was on that "America's Got Talent." No. He would joke. He had tape across his mouth. He was like this mime. You're very close to that. You can't put electrical tape on the corner of your mouth and have it pull across your left to hide it. Okay. Tape Face, that's a nice stage name. Yeah. I'll show you his-- He had a whole routine. Does that work? Now you look like a strange sideways puppet. Like marionette lines that go this way. Oh my God, this is ridiculous. All right, go to Mouse and Weens YouTube, you guys, if you want to see how stupid we look. I think we look great. I mean, how great we look.

Okay, so Johnny Depp, yeah. This is, this is what I want to talk about because you are a Hollywood insider. Oh yeah, real inside. And you've been around this world a lot longer than I have. And you know some of these behaviors. So this is what I want to talk about. Can I just-- You know what I forgot about? I worked with Johnny Depp on a movie. You did? Did you know this? I don't know if I knew this. Remind me. It's been many years. So explain what your background is really quick for those that don't know us.

Oh for the last ten years about, I've been doing locations, scouting, and working as a location assistant. So you kind of stay at the location that you generally found for the director and then you make sure everything runs smoothly. So you were working on--? I covered the name. I'm not telling anyone. Come on. The hit show "The Rookie," take the tape off. Let's see it. No, I'm not doing it. You have more electrical tape right there. You can just take this stuff from your jowls. My new name is Tape Head and I like to keep tape on everything. Wait, why don't you want people to know it's "The Rookie?" I don't like to advertise, and I also was doing something with a film where I couldn't show the logo. So I just kept it like this though. I like it better. It just says "the".

All right, so back to you. Yeah, I worked on a film and I want to say it was like 5 years ago and it was called "Mortdecai" starring Johnny Depp and Gwyneth Paltrow. The code name so nobody knew what it was was called Mustache. Do you remember this? No, not really. I barely did. I was like, "Have I met Johnny Depp before?" I said, "Oh yeah, I worked with him."

00:05:01 - 00:09:53

So did you get to talk to him? A little bit. I thought he was pleasant and but I didn't, you know, in the location job and especially that show, you're like running around like crazy and a lot of times I was jumping ahead. So everybody would, they call it land. The whole crew would land and everyone would land. And you stay there and make sure it's all, you know, you prepped it well and that everyone's settled in. And then I would bounce to find that next thing and set it up and -- So I often didn't spend a lot of time on set. Did they call it bounce? Do you land and bounce? I bounced. Yeah, I just said that. It was "Mortdecai." It came out in 2015. It did not do well. Oh really? <reading> "Juggling angry Russians, the British Mi5 and an international terrorist debonair art dealer and part time rogue Charlie Mortdecai..." All right, well, you can get it from there. Okay. Yeah.

So I remember he was very nice. We filmed it at... One of my locations was a dirty hotel room and it was somewhere like up by Magic Mountain, half an hour from Hollywood in the sticks. And it was a dirty hotel room and we had a scene there. And he showed up four hours late. And I was in the hallway and the executive producer was like, "F___ this guy." She goes, "I can't do this. I can't do this anymore. This is insane." And I heard her saying, "How could we get...?" I don't know. Get out of it? And apparently yeah, I mean, he's the star of the film. So I guess that was a common shared issue is that he just kind of strolled in. But when he did, he was real nice and real smiley. And he even came in on set, and then there was the hotel owners - the motel owners - and they were like an East Indian family and the kids were excited to meet him. So before he did anything else, he went and signed autographs. And yeah, this is my big big exciting story. And Gwyneth Paltrow actually seemed pretty nice too. I talked to her briefly. What did you guys talk about? It was something in passing and they were by a fire. There was like an outside fire and it was cold at night and we...  I can't even remember. It was the producer and her and something and it was just... I can't even remember. "Boy, it's cold tonight." Talked about the weather? It was some kind of joke, but I remember thinking, "Oh, that's nice. She's nice to the crew. She's not snooty." That's good. But then, you know, a lot of people have issues with her, but whatever. That was my two second interaction with both of them. So 2015, she would have been with Chris Martin. Yeah, just meeting him. Joelle! That was another one degree away from your love! I know! Darn!

All right, back to Johnny. Johnny. So Johnny. Was he short? He's little, right? He's little. Do you remember height? But nice. But late. Nah, all those things. I can imagine being very frustrated if you're working as the producer or executive producer with all the money, and four hours in film on a big film like that. And I think it was probably in the 20 million range. What is the budget say on your IMDb? Where do you think? It was a $20 million film? Because we shot at... It's usually on the Wikipedia page. But yeah, we shot it this one mansion on the top of the hill that is a famous place that people shoot and that was where we had to get.... Anyway, who cares? I care! Let's get back to the trial because I'm guessing it was 20 million. That's my guess.

Rude Jack Sparrow. It's almost like I can forgive him though in all of this so far. So we're at like Day 8 of the trial, because he's the lovable Jack Sparrow! Disney! We love him! Really? He's a big f__ up, right? Yeah, he's charming and he's a... What's more fascinating to me is the... It's just such a train wreck unfolding in front of you. And it looks like two toxic people in this really convoluted artsy relationship that... It just seems like two kind of unhealthy people. Yeah, it is! But because they're so funny and he's hilarious. Yeah, it's bizarre. It is absolutely bizarre and I think... Is that the fascination for everybody? That "how can people live this way?"

00:09:53 - 00:15:02

First of all, that, you know, there's the drinking and the drugs and all the things. But then they're stars. So they're talking about their houses and their private islands and the yacht that they're selling to Harry Potter, J. K. Rowling, so it's like, who else can come into the story? I think this is like a peek into the celebrity world that you don't normally know about, so it's fascinating on that level. He's kind of a likeable guy. And he's hilarious because he's just like this, you know, Buchowski character. Do you know Buchowski? If I say that you know that, right? Yeah the drunk writer? But kind of funny, like a Hunter Thompson guy. Yeah. Yeah, and those are his idols, right? So it's no wonder that he's doing this. And didn't he buy, I think the island he bought is the Brando island? Oh, Doctor Moreau? "The Island of Doctor Moreau." Maybe, yeah. I think there's a whole connection. Stinker of a film, folks. But this...

Okay, so what you know about Hollywood and having lived there and been involved with these people because you had a boyfriend for many, many, many years whose rockstar. Or in a rock band at least. I don't know about star, but. Yeah, in his circles, definitely. And so is this behavior kind of normal? Like, do you see this stuff? I don't know. You're going to ask me for inside sky. It's hard to comment on that personal. Well, I think I told you because you did S something like, have you seen stuff like this? So, yes, is the answer? And I remember, you know, there were a couple incidents of hotel rooms and lamps being smashed just because you could and, you know, a lot of drinking. There were drugs around. And it happens. And also, that's why I was thinking about the Alec Baldwin story of the poor DP cinematographer getting shot. Oh yeah. My first guess was that they're out on location. This is when people get extra wild. They're not with wife and kids. They're not going home. They're out somewhere in a lot of especially the actors and then the producers and directors and things a lot of times those guys will hang out afterwards together and because there's not a lot of rules for them they'll end up doing things like drinking and then shooting the guns in the desert or that's my guess. Yeah, I'm sure it's like a camping trip with lots of money. And like stuff and toys around. Yeah, there's a different mentality I've noticed that happens when you're on location. People hook up, people do. It's like the traveling salesman at the big convention, right? It's like a, what do they think? Like at Carney, but really rich. Or like summer, Shakespeare, I'm gonna stop, you get it. Got it. Now, this is just a guess though, do you know if this is the case? That's my guess. I do not know. Okay. I can't recall. I can't recall. I do not recall. I do not recall. This is what we've heard, I mean, what do you think? So, you're fascinated by this too. What is it for you? Oh my gosh, I've never really gotten involved in watching a trial on TV before. So back during the O. J. Simpson days, I was around. I was actually dating Rick, who lived in northridge at the time, and I think the white van probably zoomed by his house on the freeway right there. But I remember that in the Michael Jackson trial. I mean, it was all on the news, but I never really watched. I think I was always busy with school or working or babies or something. And so, and not that I have at any time right now, but I am sitting down doing this stupid garden binder. I'm like printing out every garden lesson I've ever done this year. So it's tedious work. So I send out my garden plans. And then I'm printing and then I'm organizing. Anyway, so it's one of those jobs where you can have something going in your ears, which are my favorite days. I usually listen to podcasts, but I clicked on a YouTube link to see what it was all about. And I'm hooked. And it's ridiculous. And I'm so embarrassed. It seems so salacious and stupid and why would I care and waste my time listening to this, but then I'm like, fascinated, I can't get enough. It's so late. And it takes so long. You're doing the same, right? I am. I hate to say. I mean, it's kind of fascinating. I think. But it's also the process to hear how you get to the information. To hear what you're watching the actual court process and real time. Yeah. But I think it's because, you know, if it were, I don't know, Cory Feldman and someone else. I don't know if people care. But this is Johnny Depp too, which is such an icon.

00:15:02 - 00:20:00

He's kind of interesting as far as being a, you know, drunken artistic kind of. Did you hear testimony of the house manager on the island yet? Where she found him passed out after a hammock, presumably flipped him over, and he just stayed face down in the sand. Not funny because his poor son allegedly found him passed out allegedly. He was sleeping, alleged that I don't know. But I was waiting for Jack sparrow to show up and then I was like, there he is. But I think his drink of choice is vodka, not Ramos. I was very disappointed. Wow. So when you hear that, I just keep thinking, how are they building their story? Because we're doing our documentary project right now. And I keep obsessing listeners. I keep obsessing about where our story is going, and it feels like the same brain that we can apply to this is how are they building their case and their story. So what do you think they were saying about him being drunk and like, oh, when he gets drunk, he gets passive, not violent. Right. And I think it was to hear the managers firsthand thoughts and they probably know that she's on Johnny's side because they've been friends. And that seems like what the prosecution or no, the defendant side. I can't get all this legal jargon straight. So Depp is prosecuting because she pooped on his face after amber for defamation. Defamation of character. So I guess they're defending her so the defense is trying to show that he's a drunk druggie with violent tendencies says all these horrible things and is a bad father. Depths of people are saying, yeah, but everybody loves him and he's an addict and he's got issues and he's had this horrible childhood with an abusive mother. So this is what he knows to do in a PTSD sort of way. And so I think they're going to say he's just acting like a child. And she's like the big a piece of mother. I don't know. I think that's going to be the storyline. They're definitely because I listened to someone today who was his business partner's wife, who was saying she had never seen him violent when drunk. She's never seen him out of control. He handles himself really well, except for the hammock incident apparently. Well, in the fingers slicing off and then the cutting audio, right? There's audio about. Yeah, that was my theory is that they're going to try to pin it on. He cut his own finger off because he's a loose cannon. I'll bet you that's the defense side. You think this wasn't her? I think so, because they're trying to really harping on that and yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I haven't watched a ton. Have you? I know. No, I jumped in. I guess two days ago, day 6. So I missed all that first stuff. And I just saw clips like the highlights, you know? That good old Entertainment Tonight is jumping on. You have to, did you read the Paul scheer? That was great. Yeah, Paul scheer and rob huebel. Yeah, rob huebel. I invited him to my birthday party. You know them or knew them or worked with them and yes, they had a really funny skit on their Instagram reel. We'll post it on our, but the thing about the journey that can you read the text or is it not there? It was a great text from him that was like, oh yeah, okay, I'll just play it so I think it's an audio. So ready? My fascination with the Johnny Depp trial is like if two characters on euphoria had to go to court. Their life is that level of nonsense. When you actually start to deconstruct it, it's like, I did say go get hit by a taxicab, but it didn't mean it. There's a joke. You know, and I just feel like that's what I think people are engaging in. And this is the thing that I'm most excited to share with you, which is this text exchange you referred to her as slim, right? Yes, that's correct. And so you text her rears tears, beers, shears, sapphires, leers, cheers, queers, here's mouseketeers, ears, I can go all night, DJ maxi pad, the old motherfucker you went for. I was sorry, I was signing off. I mean, it's just like that.

00:20:01 - 00:25:01

It's a train wreck, but it's hilarious. I love it. And I wish I'd seen this live because maybe they didn't bleep it, but what did he say? He was signing off as DJ maxi pad. Yeah. What's the word that rhymes with ears that they that they bleeped? What could it be? Like mother fuggers or something. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was something. But I mean, that kind of stuff. This is an important piece. This is like a court of law. It's supposed to be so official and people go to school for years and years to do this. And then they're listening to this bullshit. It's so great though. I'm so excited because this will be my last year working in the garden because I've always whenever I get jury duty, I say no, I can't. I'm working on taking care of the kids. And now I'm so excited to sit on a journey. I hope I get a fun one like this. Really? I mean, I got to do my civic duty. Yeah. Suddenly, she's interested, folks. That's to do with Hollywood. Where's my man? And then that awful attorney on amber side, the woman. And the way she talks down to everybody. She's such a, I hate to say it a bit of big old B word. She's a worst. Like, do I need to spell it out for you? And just awful. The other lady, the doctor she and curry took it very well. And she just did her little smirks and kept going and kept it professional, but whoo. That'd be hard. Wouldn't it be hard not to get red faced and mad when someone's being met ridiculous? Yeah, I would want to think of the perfect comeback instead of actually focusing on the facts. I'd probably just want to put her back in her place. She'd poop on her photo. Secretly back at home, not in front of everybody. Yeah. No, she was awful. The doctor is great though. She was so official. Oh, are you covering up your tribe? No, I'm just like, you know, when you turn a certain age for me at least, you need to really work on your lighting and I move to a new corner and eh, who cares? This is how it is. We don't care about we do. Tape only does so much. I know. She pulled the tape off and her whole cheek would bring her. Yeah, so the cross examination lady is awful. Now, is there any part of you that's like, oh, we're doing that thing. We're victim blaming where victim shaming, what if she really was abused? And here we are, totally siding with him. Do you think you're going to change your tune when she gets to take the stairs? Probably. I mean, it's real easy to get absorbed in someone's story. I find this that I could get really empathetic and then I don't take into consideration the other person at all until I hear their story and then I go, oh, and then I go, oh crap, everything I had formulated just fell apart. So I just kind of chalk it up to two people. They're adults and they've done this. It just sounds like such a dysfunctional relationship. But yeah, we could very well start siding with her. She might have a lot of good points. And because she's going last, I wonder. But then they have both their closing arguments, so they're kind of close together at the end, right? From the defendant prosecutor. It's the big To Kill a Mockingbird, get them all riled up at the end. If you've seen that I can't handle the truth, or you can't handle that wasn't even the movie. That's okay. I think that the psychology part of it was so interesting too. So I wonder what they have found about Johnny Depp. If anyone has sat down with him for two days and diagnosed him with things too, because they diagnosed amber with PPD yeah, which is not bipolar, but borderline personality. Thank you. I had to think for a second, too. And I want to say it's not hysteria. Although Sigmund Freud and those guys back then used to any kind of issue they would say women had hysteria and it was and they had a wandering uterus and sometimes it would get stuck in your kneecap area. Well, haven't you had that happen? Just put a little electrical tape on it, move it over. All right guys still wandering is still looking for a home. He's like a little hobo with a backpack. You have a male uterus? Oh, that's weird. I did say he didn't know. Yeah, anyway. No, it was. It was histrionic personality disorder. That sounds right. Yeah. So similar, but yeah, and all the stuff that they were saying makes sense, right? I love you. I hate you. I love you. You didn't do what I wanted to slap. I'm sorry. And dressing like them, and have you ever seen a relationship like this? In person. I don't think so. I'm trying to think.

00:25:01 - 00:30:01

I mean, maybe when we were really young and a girl gets a boyfriend for the first time and starts to like all of their music and starts to dress like them and I don't know. I mean, maybe I even did it, I'm trying to think. But I don't think I ever went that full on. Did I maybe with Marty because he liked the cure? I was 16. So then I started wearing more black and cure shirts and stuff like that. I don't know. Interesting, yeah. Yeah. I think I have a little. There's a psychology quiz that you guys can all take. Called the self monitoring test and it's vetted by a bunch of psychology. It's one of the ones that they were talking about in the trial. They didn't mention this specifically. But I think it's from, it's very vetted by many people. What it is. I'm going to look it up, say it again. Self monitoring test. But it's from a specific website. Let me do you want to pause and I could find it, 'cause it is really good one. Okay, sure, yeah. All right, let's hear from our sponsor, she looks this up, everybody. Here comes dream dinners. We love them. We are sponsored by dream dinners, dream dinners is a wonderful food preparation service that is offering our listeners $99 off their first order if you enter mouse and wings 99 at checkout. And let me tell you what that includes. This is a month's worth of meals you guys that is already chopped up, prepped, it's separated for you. It comes in a bag with instructions and it goes in your freezer. So you can take it out and thought any time that it's convenient for you and cook up a quick dinner 2030 minutes. It is such a game changer for us. We cooked dinners together as a family. We sit down and eat meals as a family. And it's healthy food. It's great. Quality food and you can modify it according to your likes and dislikes, you can give them special instructions. It's perfect for people who don't know how to cook. It's so simple. I leave instructions out for the kids or my husband sometimes. They have looked into it and you save 20 hours a month from shopping and prepping, and really the cost of meals is about 6 50 per meal, which is so cheap when you think about it. So much cheaper than a lot of the other services. So do go to dream dinners dot com, look up your location if you're within 25 miles of powe or San Marcos locations. Just enter mouse Wiens 99, you will get $99 off your first full order and you will receive free shipping, free shipping, free delivery. They don't ship it. They bring it to you. Or you can go pick it up yourself, but it's so easy you guys do it. It is such a life changer. Enjoy. All right. Dream dinners, everybody. Yahoo. Check them out. We have a bag on the counter currently ready to be cooked tonight. Fine. They're the best. All right, so we did not find the link per se, but we will put it in the show notes. So we're going to everybody find out more about your personality. So did you like what that psychologist was saying? And a lot of it. Yeah, I like it. I think it's interesting. What do you think? I mean, when someone's describing what bipolar disorder is and what she was very clear about giving examples, which not a lot of people are good at, even a lot of the professors I had recently a few of them, you know, it's just too heavy and wordy and she was very good bringing it down to earth and making it relatable and didn't you think? Yeah, she was. I think knowing who was watching in the courtroom and the jury, she had to speak to everybody's level. Yeah, I thought she did a great job. And I do hear little tendencies that I'm like, oh, that sounds like that one friend I had or that sounds like that person. But you didn't think any for you. What did I relate to? What did I say last night? I told you something that I was like, I relate to that a little bit. Control issues, perfectionism? All right, all right. Settle down. Just get too quick on the trigger there, girl. What do you think from me? Well, we were talking about it in a way that was like, oh yeah, I relate to that too, which was like ups and downs, right? The highs and lows. I was using anxiety. Oh yeah, we were talking about what we would relate to most if we had to give a diagnosis or get a diagnosis. Where does your anxiety live around its kids and it shows and perfectionism? I want to do a good job. Yeah. And I want it to look just right. Yep. So and it does. You look beautiful.

00:30:03 - 00:35:02

And your kids are great. Thanks. Okay. Start pulling your face up and now you like obsessed. She's holding her whole skin up with two forefingers now. Pulling everything up. I'm gonna do that too then, fine. All right, so this is what happens when you see yourself. I think we should never look at ourselves when we're recording. That's really my new thought. All right, so I'm gonna look at my audition file in here. Can you ever imagine being a therapist or someone who has to diagnose people, hearing her talk? No, knowing that you had to sit with someone and make them fill out a test for two days straight, 14 hours, no, I could not, I think that's so hard, but if you're fascinated by it and you like it, then that's a great career, which means well, could you do it? Do you think? And I don't know. Let's tell our listeners, your news. You have big news on this career front in school front. Oh yes, well, I've gotten into grad school and I'm going to go for social work and I just got, I just got what they called a field placement. So it's like a residency, I guess, where you go for your first year in three days a week, they put you in an actual environment that I just got it today because they place you wherever they want to. And they put me in hospice, which is kind of what I wanted, or at least I said, I'm interested in aging community. But they don't know that I'm interested in death and dying. Wow. But when it hit my inbox and I saw it, I kind of was like, Luke, because the conceptual idea of like, oh, near death experiences and dying. But the reality of someone sitting there in front of you is actually dying, and it might be not what I thought. So there's a little bit of fear around it. But this is the point of the school. It's to see what you're really gravitate towards. Right. Good for you, though, to do it. And hospice is something sadly that's going to come into almost every single one of our lives, right? We're at this age where our parents are getting older or we've known someone dealing with a disease and end of life is going to happen, everybody, and they need good caretakers. So kudos to you for signing up for this and I love that you're interested in it because it is pretty fascinating. When we all shut down, where do we go? What happens and how to make it peaceful and loving, which is something you're interested in helping with and learning more about, right? What if I get there though? And I'm like, God, these people are complainers. I can't do it. Stop complaining. Oh my God. No big deal. Go already. What if I'm just awful? You know, this is all an experience called life. And I was interested in it. I'm doing it, and I can always not do it if it doesn't work. Absolutely. Every choice can be changed and unmade, and you can choose something else, which I did not realize until recently in my adult life, because I've been a little bit of a commitment phobe, which is why it's taking me this long to go to school. Well, that's good. Better sooner than later, better later than sooner, better. Late than never? Yeah. Can you make a couple comments? I want to call you out live right now. Is that okay? Oh God, I guess. What did I say? Do you mind? You're already getting a little. I don't know. What are you about to say? Try me. You have made comments that it's not like a top level or one of the, one of the bigger universities that it's a state school. Do you know I was saying when you went to choose which grad school you were going to go to between Cal state San Marcos and San Diego state, university, right? No, no, no. Well, I just want to know, and this isn't to get tiffy at all, except do you think that state schools are not that great? In my, I feel like I'm on the stand. Yes, I swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. When I went to school, which was 92, well, my college years were 90 to 95. And thereafter thinking about grad school didn't go, but in 1990, San Diego state was known to be the party school. As was Cal state or CSU Chico, Chico state. So state schools kind of had the reputation of being more of the party schools easier to get into. And I think if you look back at stats, they were. And you see is we're harder to get into.

00:35:03 - 00:40:01

And I think the reputation was always University of California UCs. UCLA, UC Berkeley, UC San Diego, those are kind of the top three. I would say schools in California besides Stanford to go to and Caltech. So that's all I'm basing it on is what I remember. But I know now it's super difficult to get into any school Cal poly used to be a party school too, and that one's hard to get into now. And so I think they've leveled out and everything is good. And I mean, any college around here really has a good reputation. So, but who am I? I don't know. I mean, that was 20 years ago, so yeah. No, and I think it's perfectly good. And I just heard this whole thing about San Diego state was founded in 1897. I didn't know that. That's really flipping old. And they have the best place to get your masters in anything education. So teachers should go there and it's a great spot for becoming an educator. Yeah, so that's nothing to sneeze at. And I don't know about the masters of social work. MSW. This is like a whole separate world. And why do you care what I think anyway? I don't. Okay, good. Wait, you don't care what I think. No, I'm curious because, well, from the advice I got from two people with social work degrees is it doesn't matter. And because I'm older, don't incur a $100,000 in debt, trying to go to a nice school because of the cheap school, dude. Does it talk to you? And then it was like looking at the tab. It's not worth it. I almost applied to one and it would have been almost a hundred grand. And then you're in debt, the rest of your life. Yeah. And at this point, I kind of just want the, but it all made sense to thinking of being here, being in San Diego, doing the, I wanted to be by you guys because I thought it would be a good opportunity to get to hang out with the kids and with you guys. Because this is another chapter of life. So it all made sense to do it here. And then I'm going to leave. And then I'll never see you again because I'm going to Italy. That's my next step. What? What are you talking about? This could be the next step. Well, anywhere could be. Yeah. But stay here because we love you. Your aunt young. And you're the cutest. That's so fun. I was telling my coworker in the garden today and she's originally from India and she's like, she loves that you're staying with us. And says that that's very lucky and rare. And I've heard that from a lot of people that it is rare that we get along, hey, look who's interacting us. Who? It's Elliot. He's always. Yeah. AT&T store in 11 minutes. Oh, yeah, okay, I didn't realize what time it is. All right. See you soon. Love you. Love you bye. Bye. We got to go. I didn't know time flew by that fast. Okay. We are going to pause this. And pick it up later. All right, stay tuned, bye. We are back to finish off our episode, Opus. We are going to go full circle on this Hollywood thing. This is a friend of yours, who was recently featured in a movie. And we already interviewed him. His character was in the best actress, Oscar winner of the year, this year, Jessica Chastain won it. And it was her movie, the eyes of Tammy Faye, and this is Steve Peters. And he is the reverend, the LGBTQ aids activist, who is featured in the movie. And he sat down with you for an interview. So we are going to listen to part of his interview because he talks about the surprise that he got. He knew that she was nominated to become the best actress, but he didn't know that the surprise was in store for him. All right, and do you want to set it up to where you were and why you were there? Well, Steve is now living in my old house in LA, which I love that that worked out. He loved it, and I was moving. So that was good. And I went to interview him on his near death experiences for our documentary project because he's had 5 near death experiences. But he has gone through a lot of ups and downs medically.

00:40:01 - 00:45:00

They call him the medical miracle. And so he's died a few times and all of the procedures he's had, he contracted aids back in the 80s. And he was the first patient zero ground zero patient for certain medical treatment for aids. Which was really rocky and unstable, but ended up he ended up living to tell the tale. So let's hear about his near death experience, too. Okay, all right, well, I don't have that queued up, but I do have the Oscars talk queued up first, and then you're doing them in the moment. Okay. Ready? And you know, Allison came by on Sunday to make sure that all the tags on my new clothes were cut off and everything was steamed and pressed and everything and then Monday morning she came by at like 8 a.m. and made sure I got dressed right for the Oscar luncheon and she and she held my hand as I was so nervous and then she escorted me down to the limo and she said, Jesus, I'm like my dad now. I'm a manager or none. I love it. Yeah. She's good like that. She is. Yeah. She's probably like, oh, been there, done that. Yeah, exactly. And she knew how to do it. I mean, she got me, you know, she said, you mustn't ruin the line of your suit by putting your wallet and your keys and your phone in pockets in your suit. What do you do with them? She got me this little man purse. A little merch. All right. So that was cute. So he's talking about Allison arn Grimm, who we also interviewed, who played Nellie Olsen, mean Nelly and Prairie. Yeah. And she's his tried and true companion. She's always there to help him out and they're very good friends. So, Nellie Olson's hung out in your house. I know. That's cool. I love it. Now that's sweet. Okay, the next clip is. Let's see. Okay, here he talks about going to the luncheon, which is the day before the Oscars or a few days before, I don't remember exactly. I think a couple of days before Oscars luncheon, so another opportunity to mingle. Yeah, all right, so let's hear how that was. Rubbing elbows and forks and knives with the stars. Let's see. You know, Jessica was so funny when I got in the limo with her at an undisclosed location. So we could arrive together. I had this box with this button in it. I gave her the actual button that I wore during the Tammy Faye interview on my lapel. It was a button that says God is greater than aids. And she opened it to and I told her what it was and she was like. I'm gonna, I can't cry. I don't wanna ruin my man. And all day long, I mean, you know, we would talk and she would exchange these comments about and I would say this and she would say, you're really trying to make me cry and ruin my makeup, aren't you? And I said, yeah, that's my job today. Hilarious, oh my God. She seems like she's just such a real human being. She is. She is, absolutely. I do want to hear if you want to talk about the Oscars, how was that because that is what his currently happened. Yeah. We were sort of just talking about it. Well, the Oscars luncheon was just extraordinary. I mean, I never expected to do anything like that. And to have Jessica invite me to be her date. And, you know, she was so sweet and so kind and so down to earth. And she even talked, you know, a lot of people are surprised to find out how shy and. She's very well spoken, but she's not at all the high velocity driven a type personality that she has portrayed in a number of films like Molly's game.

00:45:01 - 00:50:17

She is not like that at all. She's an actor. She acts laurels anyway. So we had just such a wonderful time being interviewed together and we held hands through much of the day. And when we weren't holding hands, she had her, her arm through my arm, and introduced me to all of her friends in the movie business and she was so kind and unassuming. We sat down for lunch at our table. And the two chairs on my right were empty and Jessica was in the next chair on my left. And pretty soon this couple came and sat down. And I thought the woman looked a little familiar, but I wasn't at all sure who the man was. But they started talking with Jessica like old friends and finally there was a break in the oh, and she started to introduce them to me. And she said, oh, I want you to meet my date for today. This is the reverend. And before that she could get it out, they said, oh, we know exactly who he is. And that was one of the things that's so surprised me through the whole day, was people knew who I was. And I mean, they knew I was the real person behind the character in her film in the Tammy baker interview with Steve Peters. And she kept introducing me as the real Steve Peters. I've always wanted to be the real Steve Peter. So it was really nice to have that happen. Anyway, so this couple that sat down next to me. There was finally a break in the conversation and I turned to Jessica and I whispered, who am I sitting next to? And she said, that's Peter Sarsgaard in Maggie Gyllenhaal. Oh. And right behind me, I mean like right here was Will Smith at the next table. And across in the next table from him was Steven Spielberg. And. I could he was looking at me and I was looking at it. I mean, oh my God, Steven Spielberg is looking at me. And after lunch and after the program, we all got up and everybody was mingling and saying hi to each other and a lot of the behind the scenes people were introducing themselves to me and to others and Jessica was so thrilled to have the hair and makeup people from Tammy Faye nominated and so they were there and she introduced one of the team to me this young gay man and she said this is Steve Peters and he kind of shook my hand like yeah nice to meet you. And then if she said no, this is the real Steve Peters from that Tammy Faye baker interview and this young gay man went. Such an honor to meet you. Oh my God, your activism has been you are you're a pioneer and. Well thanks. It was just a remarkable day. And to be on Jessica Chastain's arm through the whole thing. And to have heard treat me so sweetly. So that photograph of her putting her head on my shoulder. I got to have that blown up and put on my wall here. So it was quite a day. And hard to come down from. And I'm exhausted still a week later. Why is that? Is it the anticipation and then finally being over it or? Well, I didn't even realize how much energy I was putting out just being there being up and involved in people's conversations and meeting all these celebrities and these stars and movie people and all and. It was just such an amazing event and I put out a lot of energy and then since then there's been so much coverage of it involving me and Jessica that I've had calls from all over and my usual friends that I like to talk to every week or every day.

00:50:18 - 00:55:08

Even that I've been talking a lot to them and then to have all these extra calls from people I haven't heard from in 50 years since we were kids and prep school or college. I mean, it's been wonderful, but oh my God. The life of stardom. I know. I know. Who knew? Who knew? Could you ever be famous? This is giving you the little taste. Well, you know something. I grew up wanting to be famous. I thought that would solve all my problems. And I had every intention of becoming a famous Broadway hoofer or a movie hoofer like Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire or somebody like that. I really wanted that. And I trained for it. I went to northwestern university and all of that. Had every intention of becoming famous. As an actor, a singer dancer. And then God had other things in mind for me. And I felt this call to be a minister, and I left all that behind, you know, I thought, you know, it's not so important to become famous. What's really important is to serve God and serve my fellow human beings. And. Now all these years later, to have that come full circle and be with all of these people who are famous and to experience a taste of fame myself, I've realized that it doesn't solve all my problems. It doesn't make friends for me. You know, I'm not really sure when people make overtures to me, which they've been doing. Like, oh, I'd love to be your friend and everything. Are they wanting to be my friend or they wanting to be the friend of a famous person? Or somebody who's touched famous people, you know? And so, you know, and I don't know, it just it's been a real lesson for me to in humility in being right sized. To experience all of this and realize what's really important. And that's still to be of service. To my fellow human beings and to do God's will to seek God's will and do it. That's amazing. Good for you. When I'm happy that maybe you didn't get famous back in the day because you would be a totally different person. Oh, I would be, wouldn't I? So that was such a sweet message. And I'm so glad he had that experience. And fun to be rubbing elbows with these people, but yeah, he's very grounded. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, he's a really wonderful person. I loved him. The moment I met him and he's just, he's helped so many people in his life and he's a good friend. He sees there for me. I call him sometimes when I'm like, that is always been there, yeah. Yeah. And he has such experience with the religion and helping people in hospice. Have you told him about your new placement? I asked him how he. No, I haven't, but previously I was interested in going into the field. And I talked to him about it because he's done a lot of hospice work. He said it can be really rough, so you just have to know how to, I don't know what his main message, I think it was more, you know, not getting caught in the sadness and being able to stay grounded and not detached, but how do you go home and feel okay? And how do you add happiness in when you're seeing a lot of but he said he had a calling for that too, it was one of the most amazing experiences of his life. You'll have to listen to the documentary everyone to hear that. I don't know. Maybe we'll put more clips out. But yeah, that was that was really sweet now. He was good friends with Robert Morse and you actually introduced them and Robert Morris recently died.

00:55:09 - 01:00:00

And why don't you tell our listeners who is Robert Morse? People might know Robert Morse. Most recently from his role as the boss of Don drapers and mad men. So does anyone know his name? His character name. There's a question for our listeners, if anyone does, you will get a free T-shirt. So figure that out and write us. And Robert Morse, I met at a sermon on the mount meeting, which is a book by Emmett Fox. Hosted by Craig, who was our lovely friend out in vain eyes and that's where I brought Steve to the group and he met him and he was also so he was made famous by being the first person to play in how to succeed in business without really trying on Broadway in 1961. And I actually saw that play on Broadway starring Ralph Macchio. But Robert Morris was made famous and he did a few amazing films like sugar in 1972. He played 1972, I was about to say Truman Capote. But he also played in true. He played, okay, so he was in the film sugar in 1972, he played Truman Capote in true 1991. Which they said he was pure genius Joe. Pure genius. Yeah, we'll link this article. It shows all of his great work and in the Broadway community. He's like, well, well, revered. They show a picture in the end of that article. Of Nathan Lane and Jason slattery from mad men just staring at him in admiration as he took his last bow on stage and I think he's right up there with all of the big ones doing the song and dance. And when Steve Peters talked about being a hoofer, I think that's what that means, right? If you're a hoofer, you are a tap dancer and a song and dance man in the theater world, and yeah. And Julianne's doing a song and dance for us right now. But I think that it's wonderful. This is a beautiful article. It's written by somebody who's a theater lover and has a book out. And we'll link it in our show notes. So please go to our show notes to see. But Robert Morse, Jules has a nice picture with him, and we'll put that in our social media. But yeah, I always remember him from mad men as looking like the kernel from Kentucky fried chicken, Colonel Sanders. He kind of had that look right at the white yellow beard and gosh, mad men was so good. And he was so good in it. So yeah, look at that. They have the episode where they did a whole dance number where he died and then came back and Draper saw him. What was that? Right. He's starting to feel like he's having flashbacks or something weird is happening to him. He's going crazy. And he sees his old boss and yeah, so it's great. I remember no one could wear shoes in his office. Everyone had to take off their shoes and only wear socks and so that was his. So he was doing soft shoe. He did a little tap dance number in his socks in the hallway of the advertising building. I love that series. I want to watch that again, actually. It's just a lovely man in a very kind, hearted person, and he was so freaking funny. Really? And our little book study meeting, he would, he was always cracking jokes. I was laughing so much. I would always sit by him because he was hilarious. Couched together. Yeah. And did you know you were sitting next to a legend? Did you realize I knew him from mad men only unfortunately I did not know the whole history, but you know, I would ask questions and he would tell stories and he has stories about Judy Garland and a lot of just really interesting stuff. We should get Steve telling stories because Steve became really good friends with him, he would go out with him and yeah. Yeah. I love it. All the old New York days and whatever, huh? Love it. Well, so here's to Robert Morse. And to Steve our dear friend Anton Johnny Depp. So we have all sides and to Jessica Chastain, who's a lovely human being and very down to earth and I guess it takes all types everywhere you go, huh? It does. That's it. Be kind. That's right. All right, wings, let's close it out. Thank you everybody for listening. And for sticking with us, I know there have been gaps in our episodes, but this has been a very busy, busy season for us.

01:00:01 - 01:03:16

So please visit all of our good friends over on the pod fix network. You're going to be hearing from us. I think we're going to do a summer episode like a little crossover episode with some of the pod fixed guys and growls. And oh yeah, and we have a new fun promo. From the marvelous madams, but in the meantime, visit us on social media at mouse and wings everywhere and YouTube and we are also on Patreon dot com where you can get free swag and inside scoops and behind the scenes and no edits and special songs and good fun stuff for a mere $5 a month. So we thank all of our good patrons. Thank you guys for sticking with us all this time and supporting us and your helping us pay the bills and stay afloat because it does add up. So tell your Friends the best way we can grow is if you test one. Anyway, love you and weans. I love you. And I'm glad you're downstairs for me right now on your good mic, we're on Zoom as if we never see each other. Okay, it's time. Your dog is stinky. Good old rigs. Again, we just got him washed. All right, bye everybody. We love you. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. I feel like not like in the back. Waiting right now saying away. Brand new part cast. Wow. And the way you're going to have a good time having a bar bounce and away we gonna have a good time just give me a call. Let us pass in peace

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Steve Pieters

Rev. Dr. A. Stephen Pieters is a long-term survivor of AIDS. Diagnosed with AIDS-related complex (ARC) in 1982, and AIDS/Kaposi's Sarcoma and stage four Lymphoma in 1984, his remarkable story of recovery serves as an inspiring example of healing and hope.